Interview: Dandelion Heart
Transcript:
Peter Greco:
We spoke to Kelly Vincent before she became a Member of Parliament, about art, and we spoke to her many times whilst being a politician. And since, as well, involved with True Ability and now Kelly is an author. Kelly, welcome.
Kelly Vincent:
Thanks, Peter. You can't get rid of me, no matter how hard you try, can you?
Peter Greco:
Well I like the fact that you keep annoying me, so I think that's a very positive thing. Why did you write the book?
Kelly Vincent:
It's a bit of a strange one. So that the truth of the story is I got an email from Katherine Larsen and Debut Books and she said look, I run a small publishing house in Melbourne, and I'm publishing a series of short books about particular topics, and I'm doing one on disability but my original writer dropped out. So I Googled disabled writers, and you were the first hit. Is there any chance you'd be interested in writing for me? And of course as you might imagine, I had a lot of material kind of stored up in my hard drive, but also in my brain from my own life. So I said yes, and it's been an amazing opportunity to hopefully share some of the experiences that have helped me form my pride in my identity as a disabled person. And I hope those will translate to other people as well.
Peter Greco:
Normally the writer chases the publicist, don't they?
Kelly Vincent:
Exactly. I'm very lucky. Very, very lucky indeed.
Peter Greco:
Tell us a bit about the book... Obviously it's going to be launched in August, we'll let people know how they can get hold of it. But you cover some sensitive topics, and I guess that's fair enough too. Because well people with disabilities are like anyone else in terms of love, relationships, sexuality, et cetera.
Kelly Vincent:
Indeed. So the book is called Dandelion Heart, and it's a collection of poetry and essays that I've written about my identity with everything from my body and my physical disability to my autism, which I was diagnosed with at age 27 but have obviously had my entire life and how that kind of... Having that diagnosis really helped me and changed my life. I also talk about mental health; my mental health in particular a little bit. And as you said, the importance of talking about sexuality and relationships. And that was particularly important for me because we know that people with disabilities are often infantilized or viewed as inherently asexual. And while of course there are people with disabilities who are also genuinely asexual and that's part of their identity and that's great, it's problematic when we view any group as you've kind of said, as homogenous or all having the same experiences and beliefs.
Kelly Vincent:
But I think one of the reasons why it was so important to talk about my relationship to my body was I think it's easy to see someone who's been through that journey like me and is very comfortable with their body most of the time now and say, "Oh, well, they've always been like that, it's all right for them." When actually no, it hasn't always been that simple. I've been through some really hard kind of challenging moments with my body and how I relate to it and how other people relate to it as well and claiming ownership over my own body.
Kelly Vincent:
So I thought it was really important to share a little bit of that journey. Particularly I hope for some younger people who you might read the book and be struggling with that idea of how do I, as a person with disability who might need assistance with things or be viewed differently, still find beauty and pride and have that autonomy over my own body. So yeah there are some challenging and very personal topics and I'm quite nervous about the book coming out, but that's exactly why I think it's so important.
Peter Greco:
Probably a good nervousness though, Kelly?
Kelly Vincent:
Exactly. I have a very good friend of mine, you've interviewed on the show actually I think before Nick Schumi-
Peter Greco:
Oh yes!
Kelly Vincent:
He's a great disability advocate. Once said to me and I've always remembered it since, "If you're nervous, it just means you care. Because if you didn't care, you get up and say whatever or do whatever or write whatever and you wouldn't think about the consequences." So yeah, that really helped me in changing my thoughts about nervousness and it being a good kind of energy. So hopefully that's what I'll experience most of the time.
Peter Greco:
Now with the sexuality thing, I mean, I guess a lot of people can identify with that. You talked about younger people, I guess it's things like dating or feeling like you're being liked or feeling like people want to be your friend. That's all sort of incorporated, isn't it? And so difficult for anyone, but as you say for a person with a disability who maybe doesn't fit the "normal" even more tough.
Kelly Vincent:
Yeah, I mean I think it's really important that we do talk about this exactly for that reason. And I certainly do talk in the book about times in my life when I've been told or led to believe that I'd be lucky to have anyone want to date me or that someone would have to look past my disability or look past really big parts of who I am in order to have a relationship with me or that someone must be a special kind of person to love someone like me or to want to date someone like me. So I've really made an effort in this book to subvert that narrative and say, actually, you're lucky to have me. Which it goes both ways, or multiple ways if you're polyamorous like me.
Kelly Vincent:
And it's not just about dating and sexuality and relationships either, Peter, that we need to talk about those attitudes. You know, I also talk about in the book an experience where I had with my grandmother when I was about 10 years old, where we'd been at her house, which wasn't accessible, and so my biological father had helped me go to the toilet. And when we came back from the bathroom, she'd said to me, "Gosh, you're lucky that your dad stayed around with a kid like you." And obviously that was quite upsetting and I'd never thought of it as a ten-year-old really any differently than my parents were my parents. And you know, it had never occurred to me that there might be challenges or difficulties that they had faced in being my parent yet. And so to hear that come out from your grandmother's mouth, who's since deceased by the way, who always said "I love you" to me and yet still has that attitude. Like I would love you, but anyone else must be very special to love you, or it's shocking to me that anyone would, is really something that we do need to address. And so, yeah, it's difficult to talk about, but again that's exactly why it's important.
Peter Greco:
Is there any wonder that people with disabilities over-represented in the area of mental illness?
Kelly Vincent:
Indeed, yeah. And some of that is of course conditions like schizophrenia that are kind of mental illnesses that are disabling, but certainly people with disabilities can struggle with our mental health. And part of that can be the dominant narrative around disability that we are less valuable, less attractive, less strong, or just generally less. When in fact, I think we need to subvert that and say, actually the problem here is that we are a society that is set up not to appreciate diverse voices and experiences necessarily. So I hope this book really contributes to subverting that conversation and rather than saying, isn't it a shame we don't hear about different depictions of disability, other than sad, sick, and sorry, say well, what are we doing to stop those voices from being heard?
Peter Greco:
What about the other instance that often we hear about is that you have to go shopping or if you go somewhere with another person, the shop assistant or whatever is speaking to the other person about you or to you, but through the other person rather than thinking, well, I can't speak to him or her because they've got a disability, so I've got to speak to the person they're with.
Kelly Vincent:
Absolutely. It's something I've experienced several times where I've been at a shop with a friend or a support worker, family member, whomever, and I'll be the person asking all the questions and yet the answers will come over my head to the person behind me. And sometimes it gets the point where the person actually has had to physically turned their back in order to send the message that person shouldn't be talking to them. So it is something that I talk about a little bit in the book; particularly this kind of concept that I like to call the cycle of inaccessibility, where we don't make things accessible and therefore people with those needs don't show up. Therefore, we don't see the need to make it accessible so we don't make it accessible. Meanwhile, shop owners and businesses are kind of going, isn't it a shame that we don't have people with disabilities or accessibility requirements coming here?
Kelly Vincent:
And so again, it's about trying to subvert that narrative and say, what am I doing to keep those people out? And in that essay I talk about people like Ann Marie Smith, for example, who was obviously incredibly isolated and abused and essentially murdered and died in a horrible circumstances. And so one of the lines that I've written in the book is rather than feeling inspired and all that touchy, feely crap about seeing a person with disability out and about whether it's at a bar or university or whatever it might be, ask yourself why it might be that you don't see that very often and get angry about it and join us in trying to change that.
Peter Greco:
That is so true. Kelly, what about the title Dandelion Heart. Where did that come from?
Kelly Vincent:
It's a good question, actually. Because when I got offered to write the book and I started thinking about it, they were just two random words that came into my head. It was really quite strange. And then I sat down and one of the poems that I wrote, which wasn't the first poem or anything, so it was quite strange that this concept was already so deeply in my mind, was about this concept of as a society we're taught to be beautiful or to be appreciated we have to be very whole and very well put together. And I started thinking about the idea of a dandelion and how dandelions are very pretty flowers when they've got the fluff ball of petals or seeds altogether, but really the fun of a dandelion is when you blow it and you watch the seeds scatter to the wind. That's the real fun of a dandelion. So it's kind of this concept of, we can still perceive ourselves as broken or not put together or all over the place, and there can still be beauty in that.
Peter Greco:
Now it's going to be launched on August the 16th. What about its availability? And also obviously being Vision Australia Radio, Kelly, any thoughts regarding whether it is or may be available in audio format?
Kelly Vincent:
Thanks Peter. So yes, the book it will be out in physical form on the 16th of August, which is also Nick Schumi's birthday just in case anyone was wondering. And I am hoping to have a physical launch of it, but with budgets and COVID restrictions and all that fun stuff, I haven't quite got that together. But keep an eye on my website for updates. But it is available for pre-order from now though. So if you go to debutbooks.com.au it is available for the very reasonable price, I think, of $9.99.
Peter Greco:
That's a bargain.
Kelly Vincent:
I would've thought so. We are on a journey and ongoing conversations about the accessibility of the book. So for example, we're revisiting the cover at the moment because we've received some feedback about the typeface, and I am also giving some thought to an audio book. I'm still in conversations with my publisher about that. But as soon as there is one available, of course Peter, you'll be the first to know. But I do have plans. So always leave them wanting more, Peter. Watch this space
Peter Greco:
Beautiful. debutbooks.com.au. Kelly, great to catch up. We'll keep in touch. Obviously it's a very exciting project. I'm going to ask you before you go... I think I know the answer, but just in case. Election next March: yes or no? At this stage?
Kelly Vincent:
For me?
Peter Greco:
I know there'll be an election. Yes or no for you?
Kelly Vincent:
Not this time. As you can imagine, I've been pretty busy with True Ability and my other advocacy work in the LGBTIQA+ and also disability spaces, and now the book. So not at the moment, you'll be shocked to hear. But never say never, but no current plans.
Peter Greco:
I love your cliches; never say never and leave them wanting more. Fantastic note to end on. Kelly, great to catch up. Good luck with it. You deserve it to do well, and the fact that it's out there is going to I'm sure inspire many people and educate many people, which is equally important. So thank you for your time and we'll keep in touch.
Kelly Vincent:
Thank you so much, Peter. Take care.
Peter Greco:
Kelly Vincent there, author of Dandelion Heart, released August 16th. You can pre-book: debutbooks.com.au.
